Some people are driven by their passion in life, even before they realize it: Italian born architect and curator Paola Antonelli found her own passion in design, by being a bad student at university at her first major. Her occupation came to her by chance and she is now Senior Curator of the Department of Architecture & Design as well as the Director of R&D at The Museum of Modern Art in New York.
We talked with her about her upcoming projects, what special moments of her work keep her going and why design will never become an art.
What are you working on right now?
I am working on the 22 Triennale of Milan, which is going to happen next year on March 1st. It is called “Broken Nature” and it is going to be a whole exhibition. “Broken Nature” is about the re-storage of design. It is about how nature, design and other human beings interdigitate with each other. So, it is a concept that is quite holistic if you will say so. And right now, I am working constantly on this, so that the exhibition is going to be good for everybody – it is a big project.
Are there any criteria for the projects you are working on?
Well, it is always a mixture of different ideas I have. It is very easy to have ideas. The difficult part is translating them into reality.
Do you have any examples of these different kinds of ideas?
Sometimes, the idea is opportunistic. For example, last year I did a fashion show for MoMa. In this case, it just happened that way. And in other cases, I have ideas that feel really urgent so you realize them no matter what. The “Design and Violence Project” I made in 2015, was first not presented at an exhibition, because it didn’t get accepted. So, I moved the project to a WordPress Site. It really depends on what your instinct tells you.
Sometimes your instinct tells you: This is worth doing – even if the outside conditions are hard.
When we talk about having ideas: What is the most interesting part of your work to you?
I would say that the most interesting part of my work is when I visit studios. I also enjoy talking to different designers and let me show their work. When it is good, then it is fantastic – there is nothing better.
So, personal contact with designers keeps you motivated?
Oh yes! This motivates me a lot. The opportunity to meet the designers and placing them at MoMa is just fabulous. That is really what keeps me going.
Can you tell me about your very beginnings? How did you become a curator?
It happened by pure chance. At first, I studied economics in Italy and then, since I was not really a good student, I changed my major. This is quite common in Italy. If you study something it doesn’t really mean, that you will start your profession out of this knowledge. Then I studied architecture, but I didn’t become an architect. I became a writer, a journalist and then a curator because I said “Yes” to helping to set up an exhibition while doing a job at the Triennale of Milan. I just agreed to the request back in those days and then one thing led to another and this is how I became a curator.
"It often happens in life: There is a lot of destiny!"
What are you proud of?
Oh, many things! Personally, I am very proud of my career thread – it is really expanding and firming my main idea of the importance of design in the world. I am very proud of having a passion and being able to work on it.
How important do you think is it that people have access to art exhibitions?
At private museums like MoMa, you have to pay for your ticket, as we cannot afford it any other way. But I know about other government-owned museums, where it is by donation or even on a chosen day for free. But even at MoMa, we tried to implement this on Friday Evenings after 4 p.m. to enable people to access art exhibitions.
But it is a big discussion. If you’re below 16 it is either reduced or for free. And there is always a way to buy the subscription for a year, which is really inexpensive. And then there are many different ways to enable access to art.
There is a big difference between Europe and the United States. In the States, the museums are usually private so they have different barriers to handle, as the state or the government doesn’t give any money. So, you can imagine, it is not possible to make the museums all for free. Even if this seems very unjust to Europeans, who are accustomed to museums that are partly government-owned.
What is your opinion on this matter?
Well, this is not my personal opinion, as this is a very systemic discussion. I think that people have to be realistic about the fact, that museums have to survive and make money.
Will design become Art?
Design will never become an art. Design and art are two separate fields. It is a misunderstanding to think, that Design can become art in any way. Not at all. I think designers should stay designers and artists have to create art. But don’t get me wrong: Art is not higher or better than design – they are just two different fields and two different spheres of creativity. They cannot be put together. I’m spending my life explaining this, so I’m happy this came up!
How important is the architecture of a room in terms of planning an exhibition for you?
As a curator I work with the space that I was given – but I don’t know many different spaces. As a human being atmosphere and architecture are extremely important. It is like music – it changes your mood.
How do new techniques and technology affect your work?
Very much. One year after I had started at MoMa in 1994 I coded their first website. I was always very interested in technology and what it could do for our work. Right now, I am giving a lecture to a bunch of students from Columbia University, where I am talking about the several uses of online technology for editorial purposes.
I think we should be very aware of the fact that technology is always a tool and not the end of our work.
I am working on a VR project right now, which I never thought I would do, because I always have been a little bit skeptical about this matter, but I have to say that I am learning a lot. And I think that I and my partners in this project are using this very well and I am pretty happy about it.
Would you say that VR is one of the trends biggest right now?
It is definitely something many, many companies are interested in. I personally feel more comfortable with Augmented Reality. But we will see, which way it is going to develop.
This interview got published and printed in Forward Magazine 2018.
How did your education in industrial design at the Royal College of Art shape you?
You spend seven days a week in this place, in this tower, next to Hyde Park in London and in your bubble - your colourful design boot camp - surrounded by exciting characters, from extroverts to silent inventors and everyone knows: This is where great things come alive.
While the others are influencing you with their dedication, the atmosphere is extremely productive and you want to commit to the maximum. At the same time you have a lot of freedom in your education: In the second year of our studies, we only met with our tutors once a week. The rest of the time you are either focusing on yourself and your own projects or try to stimulate your ideas through discussions with the community around you. Looking back, studying with tutors like Tord Bontje, Ron Arad and many more was an enormous privilege for me and it was one of the most intense and beautiful times of my life.
Before you went to London, you studied product design at the College of Design in Schwäbisch-Gmünd.
That was very traditional. We learned things like: form follows function and that everything has to make sense. Basic knowledge of geometry, space and three-dimensionality were really hammered into us. I remember how we had to paint the correct distances of drawing pins three semesters long - until we were able to draw them without even thinking about it. We were also allowed to use colours only very late in our studies: A good design must also work in black and white, they said, colours would only trick us.
How was the transition from studying in Germany to education in England?
The classes in Germany were important for my personal development because without them I would have drifted off too far into the artistic world. But in my first year in London, I was never really satisfied with my designs, because I tried to carry through the industrial design idea that I learned in Schwäbisch-Gmünd.
What other approach did your lecturers in London give you?
They realized that my skills are more about aesthetics than about function. In the beginning I always tried to add something practical to my folding. The professors then said to me, "Jule, it's okay if your folding figures are just beautiful." I could finally let go. The fact that I was suddenly allowed to do something that was purely beautiful changed my whole thinking and was also a great liberation for me.
How did you find your USP?
There are countless folding techniques you can find on the Internet. I always use the two same folding patterns, the flexible, three-dimensional and the straight, static folding. With that I can create my whole design world, that's basically all I need.
What I do in my work is changing the proportion and dimension, the size and arrangement of the folding patterns. This is how I have created uniqueness.
Another unique selling point is the materials you fold.
I take something like jeans or metal, for example, and wonder if you can fold it and if so, how to apply the folds. Do I have to steam it in heat, do I have to bend it, notch it or pour it into a mould? Then I look at the result and consider in which world it could find life and space. Is it suitable as a vase or rather as a piece of clothing? My approach, they told me in college, is learning through making.
Your mission statement on Instagram, is: "She wants to unfold the universe".
It's about infinity to me. There are so many materials that have never been folded, that have a whole new function, look, and aesthetics. Before all of this started here, I worked with my tutor at London University to create a scenario where the whole world is folded: the table, the cutlery, the glasses, the clothes, everything is folded. Today I know that this is possible.
Do you want to find out more about Jule Waibel? Check out the latest article at 
As the first female principal at Pentagram, do you think you had different challenges to overcome compared to your male colleagues?
I think this is probably true…
Do you have a particular example?
I remember instances where it was difficult to get recognized in a meeting – either in a meeting with clients or with my partners. If there was another man or a male partner present, or if the client didn’t know who I was, I would be overlooked. But time changed things a bit – especially in my case and I just continued working on the things I like.
What are you working on right now?
I work a lot on a variety of identities and some environmental projects. I also continue working on some projects I have been doing now for some time. The work comes and goes. It’s been like this for quite some time and I like most of it as they are pretty nice projects.
How do you choose the projects you work on?
Well, they choose me…
You know, I’m incredible disorganized – I receive a call and I meet with somebody, they explain the project and then it is just details like the subject matter, the time involved and how much they want to pay.
The other main thing, of course, is that a good ad is essentially different from everything you’ve seen before. Maybe it is also a combination of both and of course, originality is important as well.
But advertising itself is full of stereotypes. Everything is quite stuck. It needs people trying to do it in a different way to make something exciting happen.
Are there any criteria you have?
Sure. There are things I want to do. Before I even get the phone call and meet up with the person, there are a couple of projects I want to do and I have them in mind already. Like the Library of Congress – when I got this phone call I just thought, “isn’t this wonderful?”. Because I really wanted to redesign this, and it is a lot of fun.
I think I have a balance between really fun projects like the library which doesn’t pay as much as other projects which are more money-focused. You need this balance because without it you couldn’t survive in this business. All designers do.
What project are you proud of?
I have a lot of interesting projects right now and I like how they develop. Like the library, I mentioned earlier. It is very strong and very shocking. This is also a way of how I judge things and something that makes me proud. Because government institutions usually don’t look like this. That makes it exciting for me.
Where do you get your inspiration from?
There are things in life that you absorb, all the things you see, every movie scene you've ever watched, all the Art Museums you've been to, every book you've looked at. And on the other hand, there is the input from a specific project and you are focusing on a set of needs and opportunities that each problem presents. You are lining up your general knowledge for these things and your restored visual inspiration comes out while working on the project.
How important is the atmosphere in a room for you while you work?
We just moved to a new space and everything is much bigger. We all thought, that we would miss the old space – but in fact, this is so much better! There is so much more room and space. You have more moments to collect your thoughts. Because of this, my days feel a lot less hectic and difficult.
What is the most interesting part of your work for you?
The possibility of thinking about a project without a deadline looming. The possibility of working on something craft-related for a long time at the edge of my capabilities.
What would you say is the hottest design trend right now?
How important would you say is it to share thoughts on design with others?
I do everything very spontaneously. As I work with a team everything is completely shared, because we have to understand each other’s thoughts and opinions on different topics. We are constantly sharing information, developing new concepts, looking up possibilities and trying new things. I call this the experimental trial and error of design.
Where do you get your inspiration from?
Taking train trips. The forward motion together with a view out the window and enough space for a sketchbook; this works very well for me.
When you think of an experimental trial: How do new techniques and technology affect your work?
We use tools as they relate to ideas. Within the team, we always work with the best tools and programs we can get. If there is something to animate, we use the best tool on the market for this job. We also use the best 3-D animation we can get our hands-on. And I really love the work of my team.
Do you have any favorite tools right now?
I am personally the person with a pencil and a piece of paper. This never gets out of style.
Which would you consider your biggest design mistake and what did you learn from it?
Oh god, there is one a day. I think that sometimes I don’t acknowledge – and this is a very personal issue – how far we need to take it. So I’m always surprised that a project takes longer than I think it would, or it gets more complex than I imagined. I think that I tend to simplify things.
Is this a constant challenge for you?
Sometimes yes and sometimes no. It depends on how good the system is. I wouldn’t call it mistakes, but when I do identity systems, they need to last for a certain time, let’s say up to five to six years, then you have to start tweaking them because things change. And you need to pay attention to his and update the identity system.
What do you think about the current generation of young designers?
I worry about them in terms of their relationship to software. Because I think that the next generation is always faster and more adaptable to the most current software. So it seems that each generation is somehow stuck in software. What they need to do is not to rely on that and to start thinking critically and in a problem-solving mindset.
How would you say American aesthetics differs from European aesthetics?
I would say right now, that the European graphic design is much stronger than the American one. It’s that way for a couple of reasons. I think it is because the communities have gotten cut up in the United States and mostly went into UX and making things understandable, but they don’t know anything about identity systems or things that are promotional. In Europe, I see that the designers marry booth forms of expertise in a much more effective way. They are also broader. I think that is really bad for US design.
I know that European designers, on the other hand, especially from Germany, Austria, and Switzerland have big problems with American commercialism. They do their work, especially for movies, very commercial and don’t work that artful anymore.
Is it a global trend in terms of graphic design?
I would say that there are influences. They pop up, are persuasive and go away.
This interview got published and printed in Forward Magazine 2018.
You are traveling to different countries and cities on a regular basis. How does that affect your work life?
The traveling is additional in a sense. It often happens at the end of the week or the weekend and it goes along with promoting a book or things like that. In Europe, on the other hand, I have quite a large group of friends who live literally everywhere. It is nice to combine work with leisure. Traveling is also part of my inspiration. For my work as an artist, I re-appropriate images that I find all over the place. I love going to flea markets, stores and shops. For example, in Vienna, I found something really nice in a random shop.
What did you find?
I found some interesting photographs – wherever I go and whenever I have some time, I try to hunt for these things.
How do you collect and sort the things you find? Do you have a system for it?
I mostly collect family albums and I like to keep my favorites quite close to me. By now, I have 15.000 photos that I keep in a storage. Usually, I categorize them by the place where I bought or found them. There is not so much of a system and I don't see myself as a collector.
What would you consider good advertising?
I think good advertising is advertising that goes against advertising. For one thing, because everybody who grew up with advertising and especially the younger generation knows all of the systems and tricks. They can tell exactly when it is fake advertising or advertorial, when it is cheesy or when it is creative – so in that sense, it is quite nice to create advertising which has a certain irony on advertising itself.
The other main thing, of course, is that a good ad is essentially different from everything you’ve seen before. Maybe it is also a combination of both and of course, originality is important as well.
But advertising itself is full of stereotypes. Everything is quite stuck. It needs people trying to do it in a different way to make something exciting happen.
How did you position yourself in a radically different way back then?
First of all, I am not a big fan of advertising in general. I mean, I quite hate it. For me, it is very important to dislike certain things which then trigger uncomfortable feelings. This is also a way to fuel my anger and energy in order to do something different.
Humor and irony have a big part in your work. But they differ from country to country for example…
The Germans. They have no humor.
… do you consider the difference of humor in your work?
Well, it is always a cocktail of things that make your work good. The two points I mentioned earlier should be combined with a third point: Your work should be successful and it should work for the client.
In terms of humor, you should break new ground and use it for your own purpose. Stay open for new discoveries and you will get there.
Would this be a piece of advice for young designers?
Yes, I personally think that you shouldn’t specialize in anything and be inspired by everything. Especially when you work in advertising or graphic design, it is not good to get inspired from your own discipline. You should always go out on the street, look around and go to all kinds of places that are not directly linked to your work. Because that is where you find new ideas. Then you can connect them with some job, briefing or idea you already have. At least, then it is not made within the same discipline.
What is the most interesting part of your work for you?
The possibility of thinking about a project without a deadline looming. The possibility of working on something craft-related for a long time at the edge of my capabilities.
How do you clear your head?
I sleep very well. Not long, but good. Some people think that when you do a lot of different things and you’re always on the move that must be exhausting. But for me – I get a lot of energy from it.
Where do you get your inspiration from?
Taking train trips. The forward motion together with a view out the window and enough space for a sketchbook; this works very well for me.
How often do you check up the internet for inspiration?
Constantly!
Do you think the internet is becoming the main place to look for inspiration?
I think it is a combination. For me, it is really important to experience certain things myself for example at the flea market. I think it is very interesting how the sellers talk and how they arrange things on the table. Like they put five different things that don’t belong together on top of each other. I think that is very interesting. I like it because it is not perfect.
What should the audience at Forward Festival take home from your talk?
Most of all: Confusion. I think this would be good. To me, confusion and not being confident is a really good state of mind. I am a very confused and vulnerable character myself. And I think it is good to think about the bad things first in order to come up with something good.
This interview got published and printed in Forward Magazine 2018.
How did you get where you are now?
I started to write for a small magazine called Alphorn when I was 15 years old and quickly discovered that I loved doing the layout more than the writing.
How did you develop your own design style?
I am not sure if we have a readily identifiable design style. We do have some methods. Somebody smarter than myself described style as the outside of a concept, and the concept as the inside of style. We used to have a sign in the studio saying style=fart, but I am not so sure about this notion anymore. I think that attention to style can make the delivery of good content easier. So why not pay attention to it? Also, I found out, by changing our own style on every project, we stayed much on the surface stylistically and were in danger of ripping off styles developed by other people.
What are you proud of?
During my second sabbatical, I was looking for something meaningful to design and “The Happy Film” seemed to fit the bill. It forced me into doing a whole lot of research and experiments within this field. I also figured that whatever we do might have a chance to be of service to other people. I had never done a film before. Thus, the project allowed me to work with a new and challenging medium. The fact that we finished it through all the massive trouble, that’s what I’m most proud of.
There is a huge competition in the field of visual communication; the Internet is full of portfolios. How did you manage to lift your work from others?
We are interested in creating an emotional connection to an audience. This sometimes works.
With creative work, work and free time often blend. Technology allows us to work from anywhere, anytime. How do you deal with that?
I am mostly a beneficiary of these new possibilities, as I do travel on an almost constant basis and actually work very well on planes and in the hotel. I am answering these questions on a plane.
How many jobs can you handle at once?
We usually have about a dozen jobs on the burner in the studio, all at various stages.
Does your work make you happy? Is it full-filling for you?
Yes. I do feel that design has been a very important ingredient in my overall well-being. Relationships to family and friends have been the other one.
How important is the atmosphere in a room for you while you work?
This is so very important. When I was on sabbatical in Mexico, I rented a house with a home office in the basement. After working there for a number of days, I moved the office upstairs into the high-ceiling living room. I was suddenly MUCH more productive.
What is the most interesting part of your work for you?
The possibility of thinking about a project without a deadline looming. The possibility of working on something craft-related for a long time at the edge of my capabilities.
What do you do when you’re not at work?
My mentor Tibor used to say: When you do what you love, you don't need a hobby. Nevertheless, I am passionate about science museums, reading, all kinds of concerts and traveling constantly.
Where do you get your inspiration from?
Taking train trips. The forward motion together with a view out the window and enough space for a sketchbook; this works very well for me.
What motivates you to keep working?
The possibility that we might design something that helps or delights somebody.
What is your new exhibition „BEAUTY“ about?
Most design-centric professions, be it architecture, product or digital design don’t take beauty very seriously, with many practitioners seeing it as superfluous while concentrating on function. I very strongly believe that the sole pursuit of functionality often leads to work that does not function at all. The public housing projects of the 50ies and 60ies being a prime example: The goal was to house as many people as effectively as possibly resulting in projects that were not fit for human habitation. They needed to be torn down again 20 years later.
My old friend and mentor Tibor Kalman used to say: "I have nothing against beauty, I just don’t find it all that interesting." I used to agree but changed my mind: I think beauty can be a fantastic means of communication. Also, it can help a piece to become very emotional and touching.
What did you learn from your last sabbatical? Why did you choose three completely different countries for this? Was there an idea behind it?
I have NO desire to switch off from work during the sabbaticals. Actually, they are there to work and I normally work more hours in them than in a regular year. We just don't do any client work, but instead, pursue little experiments that might yield results for clients in the future. I wanted to conduct the third sabbatical in 3 places (Mexico City, Tokyo, Schwarzenberg in Austria) simply because I had never done it before. I do not want to repeat the same experiences. It’s a lot of fun! I am not in a position to determine what other people should do, but I can say this: I have now talked to dozens and dozens of people who took a sabbatical, rich and poor, singles and families. EVERY single one thought it was among the best things they had ever done in their lives.
What is your best advice?
Stop concentrating on your own happiness and start looking out for the happiness of others.
Read also our most recent interview 
What are you proud of?
I made Berlin a better place by designing the passenger information for BVG, the Berlin traffic enterprise, back in 1990/91, after the Wall came down. Before that, all the buses, trams and trains were beige. Now they are bright yellow and the best of all is that nobody gets lost anymore.
How did you manage to lift your work in the field of visual communication from others?
No idea. I always did what I thought was the best I could. Also, I often took complex projects that were too boring for other designers.
What is the most interesting part of your work for you?
Working with other people who are smarter than me, at least in some areas.
How do you choose the projects you work on?
I am officially retired and don’t do much commercial work anymore. Therefore I ask myself the following questions. Does the world need them? Are the clients good people? Do I need the money?
What is your favorite tool right now you’re most excited about to work with?
Analog printing presses and type metal.
What do you think about the design scene? How do you manage to position your work so radically different than others?
I don’t position my work, I just do it. Clients come with a project and I decide to do it or not.
What would you consider good design?
It needs to solve the problem plus add an extra level of aesthetic pleasure.
Do you think the internet is becoming the main place to look for inspiration?
Not anymore. People are going back to meeting people and doing analog things.
Which would you consider your biggest design mistake and what did you learn from it?
This story is too long to tell, but I learned never to promise more than I can actually keep.
How important would you say is it to share thoughts on design with others?
Very important. I actually never studied design and learned everything I know from others. So I like giving back to the younger generation.
This interview got published in Forward Magazine 2018.